:''1231'' moo :''1301'' hello? :''1301'' morning :''1301'' Good timezone. Sorry I'm late. :''1301'' you haven't missed a thing :''1301'' :''1302'' Hello Angela, elian, effeietsanders, SabineCretela? :''1302'' hello Amgine :''1302'' meeting? :''1302'' oops, SabineCretella :''1303'' ouch, totally forgotten :''1303'' why that questionmark? :''1303'' Well, should be meeting, but I wasn't sure if everyone was here for that. :''1303'' effeietsanders: amgine wants to know if we're here :''1303'' poke poke :''1303'' oh, i was just here, not for any scary meeting ;) :''1304'' One person who is not here is Britty, who asked for this hour of the meeting. :''1304'' aphaia does not appear to be online :''1304'' :''1304'' So perhaps we should wait just a while longer? :''1304'' * NotACow objects not. :''1304'' * elian neither :''1304'' hi - moment will be here in two mins :''1304'' although you may need to call my cellphone to wake me up :) :''1305'' :''1305'' Think about me! :''1306'' believe me, i already contemplated that :) :''1306'' Actually, my partner's flight was cancelled last night, so I would need to be awake now anyway (and must leave this meeting early anyway. :''1306'' Amgine: what time is it where you are? :''1306'' 6:06 am :''1306'' * effeietsanders bets 1100 :''1307'' wow :''1307'' hmmm, a few hours wrong :P :''1307'' :''1307'' hmmm, i meant 900 bte :''1307'' btw :''1308'' Mmm, that's the central timezone... that's for NotACow. :''1308'' it's 0800 here :''1308'' * NotACow would prefer to still be sleeping :''1310'' http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/5286458.stm?ls :''1310'' what's on the agenda? :''1310'' SabineCretella: yes, i saw that earlier. :''1311'' But now there are suggestions that a new architecture of control will be introduced for Wikipedia as a whole, if it proves successful when it is applied to the German-language site next month, and this could have far wider implications. :''1311'' Under the new approach, page edits will no longer be immediately applied to pages but will instead have to be approved by an administrator before they become visible. Vandalism or changes which are not approved will not appear. :''1311'' do these guys write how they would like to see things??? :''1311'' SabineCretella: i think they make it up as they go along :''1311'' we need to combat that particular perception :''1311'' I'd very much write: before writing sch stupid stuff do your homework :''1312'' we have enough people heree to get started. we'll pick up britty's specific agenda items if and when she makes it :''1313'' let me find the agenda... :''1313'' i just found it :''1314'' we have membership, communication improvement between other committees/operational teams, and upcomingboard elections :''1314'' Membership: I believe SabineCretella has someone for Translation? :''1314'' i'm going to hazard a guess that upcoming board elections is mainly britty's item :''1314'' Actually, no, I added that. :''1314'' although the press releases we can draft without her assistance, i should think :''1314'' there is jd_ and that was already discussed by e-mail :''1314'' we would like to have him in :''1314'' And general approval all around. :''1315'' i didn't see any objectiosn on the list :''1315'' i think we have consensus on that point :''1315'' nor did I :''1315'' I would like to mention he's been doing a huge amount of work on wikimediafoundation.org, and is an admin there. :''1315'' morning WalterBE :''1316'' if he does a good job on the foundation website, I'd like to have him as a subcom member of promotion :''1316'' at the moment it very much looks like an excellent job :''1317'' Walter, we just started and are talking about approving JD's membership in comcom, for sure in Translations and now also in Promotions... :''1317'' i think there is consensus for adding jd_ to promotion & translation :''1317'' translation, yes :''1317'' elian: he is one who does, even if he does not translate, but he cares very much about communication/translations - I can not always be there and aphaia cannot do everything :''1317'' Amgine: they're the same subcommittee :) :''1317'' for promotion I want to wait a bit :''1317'' NotACow: not anymore :''1317'' elian: oh. we need to update meta, then :''1317'' NotACow, not under the new structure we talked about on the list. :''1317'' Amgine: i missedthat :''1317'' That's the agenda item two. :''1318'' * NotACow has been *swamped* this week :''1318'' heh. :''1318'' can someone quickly brief me? :''1318'' or just summarize for all of us what the restructuring is? :''1318'' We plan to have more strict relationships: people really need to be in a subcom to be on the comcom. :''1319'' on that point, i was originally intending to be on internal :''1319'' We split Promotions and Translations, mostly to focus on the physical differences. :''1319'' That is indeed much better Amgine :''1320'' Since promotions does a range of things from paper layouts to web interfaces, it makes sense to separate the content from the software if you will. :''1320'' (sorry, that's a terrible idiom for non-native english speakers. :''1320'' heh :''1321'' It makes sense to separate the content from the way it is being delivered. :''1321'' We have good people who do only layout stuff ... translators are mainly not able to care about formatting (at least wiki formatting ;-) :''1321'' makes perfect sense :''1321'' having been a web developer in the past i know exactly how that works :''1322'' I used to do that; it was terrible work with a lot of stress. :''1322'' Okay are there any opposes for JD being a part of at least Translations, and thus on the comcom? :''1323'' no oppose :''1323'' without objection, so ordered :''1323'' :''1323'' No, Welcome JD :''1323'' he's not around :) :''1323'' right ... but he wanted to be around today :''1323'' Next item: getting our subcommittees to communicate... :''1324'' that one is naughty amgine :''1324'' Yes! :''1324'' SabineCretella: are you the "chair" of translations? :''1325'' The person everyone on the committee is talking with? :''1325'' no - as from the mailinglist it appears to be Aphaia :''1325'' but she is not always here :''1325'' so: when I can do I will just do :''1325'' for now we are three :''1325'' Aphaia, jd, me :''1325'' can someone point me to the discussion of the decision to split translations and promotions? i can't find it :''1325'' sj is not much around lately :''1325'' i don't have a problem with it, but i'd like to read it :) :''1326'' Mmm, michael snow outlined it on the list, I think last Saturday. :''1326'' What can be usefull is a specifc maildrop alias for every subcom. Not a mailinglist but only a maildrop. To make it more easy for the subcoms to talk or being contacted :''1326'' NotACow: this was decided on the last meeting :''1326'' elian: ah. ok, i missed that meeting. :''1326'' i'll find the meeting log :''1326'' that was two weeks ago :''1327'' last week's meeting was a washout :''1327'' WalterBE: contact addresses, good point :''1327'' SabineCretella: one of the things Michael talked about is to have a chair who will "report" as WalterBE suggests. :''1327'' Amgine: that can be problematic for me - I never know what happens with kids, work etc. :''1327'' The comcom page should include e-mail links for all members. :''1327'' can someone please update the comcom page to reflect the current committee structure including chairs for each subcom? :''1328'' if all listmembers have there "email this function on" that should be engough :''1328'' SabineCretella: Could you make sure a brief report happens weekly? It doesn't have to be attending a meeting. :''1328'' As for the chair Aphaia was suggested and I believe she likes to do it :''1328'' aphaia seems reasonable for translations chair :''1329'' pending her acceptance, of course :''1329'' if she has no time, it's enough that she tells me and then I can substitute her for that - but I cannot promise ... :''1329'' I agree; the acceptance is the thing I'm concerned about. :''1329'' I talked with her some days ago about this and she wanted to accept :''1329'' Okay SabineCretella. :''1329'' I'll tell her :''1329'' to tell you :''1329'' if she refuses you can have it, SabineCretella :) :''1329'' NotACow: was that not only a suggestions and not allready agreed to have "chairs" for a subcom of sometimes 3 people? :''1329'' WalterBE: we need the structure :''1330'' NotACow ... I would just do it until we find someone better :''1330'' someone needs to be responsible for each subcommittee's activity and the report back to the full committee :''1330'' Yes, absolutly :''1330'' NotACow: I'll update the page after this meeting. :''1330'' who has less problems in terms of time :''1331'' Internal... WalterBE, I know Flcelloguy and zocky are also active, and NotACow is trying to become active, and yourself. :''1331'' For now please leave Aphaia as proposed - she'd understand it wrong if we write "temporarily" :''1331'' i seem to do a lot of the communication with enwiki :''1332'' which is not a pleasant job, thanks to Certain Admins there who distrust/dislike the foundation :''1332'' Can the four of you talk about who has time to do the chair position? :''1332'' first, any objection to my being on internal? :''1332'' NotACow: not from me :''1332'' Ah, yes. Not just objections though. :''1333'' I'd like you on internal, but you will need to work cross languages as well as cross projects. :''1333'' well, i can do what i can, given my limited language skills :''1334'' i am not volunteering to chair :''1334'' Who the chair will be is somewhat up to the subcommittee. :''1334'' I wanted to have michael as chair, given he has the best diplomatic skills :''1334'' but he refused :''1335'' We got him as comcom chair mostly because we didn't let him refuse. :''1335'' as he is already chair of comcom itself :''1335'' *laugh* :''1335'' Not an objection but more now I notice that the home wiki of 3 of the internal subcom members is the EN wikipedia :''1335'' yes, he is and should remain comcom chair :''1336'' That's an important point, WalterBE. :''1336'' * NotACow is spending more time on commons and on en.wiktionary these days, if that's any consolation :) :''1336'' Should we be attempting to recruit more people who are from other languages, and other projects? :''1337'' At this point I do not think that is good idea :''1337'' Amgine: as for translation, I'd like to involve some more people from the small wikipedias :''1337'' WHen you are with few people you can arrange things relative easly :''1337'' maybe this would be good also for other sectors :''1337'' All right SabineCretella: I have a couple of possible candidates for you. :''1338'' :''1338'' when there is structure and organisation of the comcom , then maybe :''1338'' lets get our own house in order before we call for boarders :) :''1339'' For Internal, I would suggest Internal continue to discuss their organization. :''1340'' I think, NotACow you are a good candidate for Internal membership; especially since I have been looking at your work on Wiktionary. :''1340'' Are there any objections to NotACow being on the Internal subcom? :''1341'' none, so moved, etc. :''1341'' Next agenda item: Press releases regarding the elections :''1342'' Amgine: what do you plan? :''1342'' I was really hoping we could talk with Aphaia here about this... but I was thinking it might be a useful idea to tell the media that we're doing this. :''1342'' * elian thinks one press release in the end should be enough :''1343'' one press release seems appropriate. :''1343'' I was thinking from a public relations sort of thing: "Look, Wikipedia even elects its own Board of Trustees" :''1343'' * mindspillage nods :''1343'' do we mention the board expansion issue? :''1343'' no :''1343'' I would not do that now :''1343'' Mmm, I wouldn't. :''1344'' neither would i, but i thought it worth discussing :) :''1344'' :-) :''1344'' Mostly we want a press release focused on one simple topic, not a complex one. :''1344'' the press release should include a suitable photo of the winner :''1344'' i'm concerned that someone will notice that the board is minority-elected and make an issue of it :''1345'' do we need a pre-election release? :''1345'' I would prefer not :''1345'' * NotACow hopes that she isn't the winner, then, because she has no suitable photos. :''1345'' NotACow: I need a photo from you now, anyway :''1345'' elian: ask greg! :''1345'' The reason is that if we have a pre-election we may have a flood of people upset because they cannot vote. :''1345'' he took bloody well enough of me :''1345'' Amgine: good point. :''1345'' Amgine: agreed :''1345'' Amgine: if we now say ""Look, Wikipedia even elects its own Board of Trustees" and later in the year the board decideds to appoint several new board members without an election will that not look stupid? :''1346'' WalterBE: press has sometimes a short memory :''1346'' NotACow: I can arrange to have a good set of portraits for you. :''1346'' elian: actually the one i like best is, ironically, the one they're using on wikitruth. but i don't know where they got it from. :''1346'' it's from the arbcom panel, which leads me to suspect that it's a wikimedian's photograph, but i haven't found the source :''1347'' I wil start working on a draft of the press release on comcom.wikimedia.org in the coming week. :''1348'' wonderful :''1348'' I am assuming we will want a couple of quotable quotes, hopefully from JWales, Angela, and the successful candidate as well as a good backgrounder so journalists do not need to research too much. :''1349'' Amgine: don't wait for quotes - invent them and let them approve :''1350'' except maybe for the successful candidate :''1350'' The candidates who make any change have already a lot of information on there user page I believe :''1350'' :''1350'' I like that one elian :-) will remember it for the next time I have to write something :''1351'' Speaking of which, I should probably do a quick synopsis of press issues this past week. :''1351'' The press also invents quotes so it is not so bad to invend them ourself :''1352'' We have a series of news articles regarding US politicians/candidates warring on Wikipedia. :''1352'' Mostly these have been positive about Wikipedia, negative about US politics. :''1353'' we did impose a new policy on enwiki regarding congressional edits :''1353'' We have had one unfortunate situation with Mr Wales; he has had to pull out of the nl Wikimedia event due to transpotation issues. :''1354'' Amgine: was this covered in the press? :''1354'' The de article versioning topic which Mr Wales brought up in a CNet interview is having some bad press as well. :''1354'' blocks of congress (and of other governmental bodies) are required to be reported to comcom. we need to designate how people are to make that report. :''1354'' NotACow: cool thing :''1354'' elian: I have had one press question about it, but I don't know if it is being reported in nl press. :''1355'' Amgine: dutch press? :''1355'' for now, they're mainly reporting to me :''1355'' hmm, probably not newsworthy :''1355'' I have not heard, elian. :''1355'' and i forward to amgine :''1355'' but it may affect press coverage of the dutch event :''1355'' eiaway would know more... :''1355'' NotACow: editing a wiki page on meta may be the best way... (and we watch the page to get email notification -- I really love that that has been turned on on meta) :''1355'' mindspillage: that's probably best. :''1355'' NotACow: could you update us on mywikibiz and any related issues as well? :''1356'' elian: not much has happened recently :''1356'' there is a pending request for arbitration; community consensus is absent on how to deal with him :''1356'' and the arbcom appears unwilling to take up the matter :''1356'' it should be a general habit of the projects to report possible news topics to comcom :''1356'' Is the user still editing/creating articles NotACow? :''1357'' Amgine: i have not looked in the past few days. :''1357'' he was blocked for a week for using AfD to promote his business :''1358'' :''1358'' he has not edited (other than his talk page) since 21 august; not in article space since 20 aug. :''1359'' Thanks. I'd like the dopplegangers watched as well. I still think he has employees using the one account. :''1359'' his block expires in two days :''1359'' I believe he is currently serving a 7-day block. :''1359'' Yes., :''1359'' reading the comments on the RfAr page, i would say that there is no consensus in the community as to how he should be treated :''1359'' But I have had a report of a similar occurrence on de; a company advertising they can get placement in de.wp. :''1359'' quite a few people feel that it's Jimbo's problem and that Jimbo should deal with it :''1400'' Amgine: from whom? :''1400'' NotACow: He is waiting for a clear guidance from the community. If the ArbCom has a consensus of opinion, he would likely implement that. :''1400'' Amgine: yes, that would be very jimbo. :''1401'' Amgine: I haven't heard about it on de :''1401'' A german reader of Wikinews, elian. :''1401'' i believe that he will be allowed to edit when his block expires, but that he will be watched very closely :''1401'' Said it was beign talked about on the PR blogs in Germany. :''1401'' Amgine: can you forward me this? :''1402'' Mmm, it was in IRC. I don't think I can find it on de blogs; but Presroi probably can. :''1402'' Also, try asking SonicR :''1402'' * mindspillage is not sure the arbcom rejecting it is the best course of action; I'd not be surprised if Jimbo wanted the community to handle it internally so it doesn't appear that he is doing whatever happens by fiat. :''1402'' mindspillage: i'm certain that jimbo intends for the comminity to handle it :''1403'' mindspillage: imo the arbcom should either take the case or reject it with a message directing the community to develop a consensus :''1403'' For this committee, however, it's mostly a case of keeping us informed of issues which may come up in the press. :''1403'' arbcom needs to make it clear that this is not "in Jimbo's court" :''1404'' we can talk about this more on arbcom-l or wikipedia-en-arbcom later :) :''1404'' I hope everyone is aware that I consider you *all* to be press contacts, and I may (and have) sent journalists to speak with you. :''1404'' just a note: tropical storm ernesto does include tampa in its possible path :''1405'' one more membership issue :''1405'' Which reminds me... We had a journalist at Wikimania who is planning an article about Neapolitan Wikipedia. :''1405'' Yes? :''1405'' I asked arne klempert aka akl to participate in the promotion subcom :''1405'' Amgine: i assume you saw the NYT article about the swahili guy. :''1406'' he has agreed :''1406'' any opposition to add him to comcom? :''1406'' * WalterBE No idea who he is :''1406'' future CEO of wikimedia germany :''1406'' Amgine: mywikibiz does have socks, but they have not edited since he was banned. :''1407'' No, url for the NYT article please. :''1407'' Amgine: Neapolitan Wikipedia? :''1407'' and second press contact of de (as such he should be on the list anyway) :''1407'' Hmmm .... :''1407'' Amgine: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/26/arts/26wiki.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&ref=technology&adxnnlx=1156572670-r3fFwb68Mb0pqjvqoPcAUw :''1407'' Arne is already on my list, yes. :''1407'' SabineCretella: Italian journalist. :''1407'' jimbo's visit to india also generated press :''1407'' lemme go find that :''1408'' okay, then I'll add him to comcom. :''1408'' Well: he'll find us if he really wants :''1408'' elian: I'm very supportive of Arne, but will de.wikimedia let us steal his time? :''1408'' But if you add him must not all heads of the chapters be on the comcom? :''1408'' I will send out a reminder to her, SabineCretella. :''1408'' WalterBE: no :''1409'' Arne is an excellent designer, WalterBE. :''1409'' he is not head of a chapter, anyway :''1409'' ok, fine, just asking :''1409'' http://www.contentsutra.com/21986 <- jimbo's visit to india gets a paragraph about two screens down :''1409'' I would love for him to help out on some of the interface items... :''1409'' I wanted to steal their treasurer, too, but he refused :''1410'' :''1410'' I'm surprised Arne agreed; he's always busy when I try to get in touch with him. :''1411'' sansculotte was tempted as well, but he has a new job and just moved to another city :''1411'' So Cohen finally filed an article from Wikimania.... :''1411'' coming back to an issue i mentioned earlier... :''1412'' i have an offer from one of the enwiki bot freaks to set up a bot to automatically notice blocks and edits from certain IP ranges (e.g. congress) on a meta page. :''1412'' Amgine: no, was not covered by the press. Btw, you get now another excuse of Jimbo. What's the "official" ons? :S :''1412'' *one :''1413'' NotACow: that would be good. :''1414'' effeietsanders: It was scheduling. :''1414'' i will set up a couple of subpages on meta for the manual and automatic reporting of congressional blocks and edits :''1414'' this is mainly of interest to press, since they're the ones who get asked the questions :''1414'' Amgine: he told me that he "found his schedule to busy" :''1414'' NotACow: What page? :''1414'' *too :''1415'' so that's the one anyway? :''1415'' Amgine: i don't know yet, i'll let you know when i figure it out :) :''1415'' effeietsanders: give the guy a break... :''1415'' * effeietsanders was reading back and saw "transportantion issues" , what confused him :''1415'' He couldn't travel to and from nl and the other committments. :''1415'' i'm going to amend the blockip message on enwiki to point to the subpage on meta, and ask voa or tawker if they can implement the bot feature for me :''1415'' elian: i would like to know what i have to tell people :) :''1416'' NotACow: Joshbuddy? :''1416'' who's joshbuddy? :''1416'' The person who actually codes Tawkerbot2. :''1417'' Amgine: ah. :''1417'' tawkerbot is the bot which reverts legitimate changes as vandal edits? :''1417'' * NotACow giggles :''1417'' elian: yes. :''1417'' Sometimes... :''1417'' the one jimbo blocked a while back :''1418'' indeed, sometimes. Though human vandalfighters are often just as bad... :''1418'' and you let it run free again? :''1418'' It is no worse than the humans... :''1418'' mindspillage: or even worse; bots don't leave nasty messages and then get into revert wars over removing them from the tlak page. :''1418'' elian: it catches about 60% of the vandals. :''1418'' true. :''1418'' my heart yearns for stable versions :) :''1418'' yes. :''1419'' the impact that stable versions will have on enwiki cannot be understated :''1419'' Let de test it... don't joggle their elbows. :''1419'' agenda item: kicking brion :''1419'' yes, yes :) :''1419'' why are we kicking brion this week? :''1419'' Brion will be implementing SUL after the elections. :''1419'' elian: what is the current timeframe on de implementation? :''1419'' NotACow: to hurry with the stable version :''1419'' After SUL, de article versioning. :''1419'' so we're looking at sometime in october :''1420'' wikimedia looks very silly, announcing it again and again :''1420'' we need to draft some notifications for SUL :''1420'' We did, last spring. :''1420'' But yes, we need to dust it off and work on it again. :''1420'' have they been reviewed for accuracy lately? :''1420'' heh. :''1420'' they will need to be broadly translated :''1421'' :''1421'' what about a public press release? :''1421'' worth mentioning? :''1421'' Yes, it is. :''1421'' yes :''1421'' we are also going to need to do a global sitenotice :''1421'' I need to get into press release writing mode. :''1422'' btw, I recently saw that we announce a press release list on the foundation press room :''1422'' has this list ever been used? archives are empty :''1423'' It has never been used. :''1423'' The question is how it should be used. :''1423'' I could add all the press addresses I have to it. :''1423'' how many subscibers does it have? :''1423'' And we could do press releases in many languages via the one list. :''1424'' I believe I've added 3 or 4; not very many. :''1424'' But I have several hundreds of e-mail addresses. :''1424'' http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/admin/wm-pressr-l :''1425'' Amgine: have you added them to arne's distribution software? :''1425'' Some of them. :''1426'' I'm trying to get a central CRM set up for all of WMF, so we do not have multiple lists maintained by dozens of different organizations. :''1427'' there are only the two I know of :''1427'' Currently we're supposedly going to be using CiviCRM, but I've been told not to put things there permanently. :''1427'' I know of 6. :''1427'' tell me :''1427'' Some of which are kept on wikis. :''1427'' *sigh* :''1428'' Basically, every project which has developed a press group is maintaining their own lists. :''1428''